[Rudette]

Firstly, we need to consider who the person was that stated the community was horrible, and why. If that person was "attacked" by a group from this community, then it is conclusive that he/she would see it as a "horrible community". It doesn't necessarily mean the community is bad to everybody else, or bad at all.

Personally, I like how everything is now. Comments can range from very informative to the mere "troll" post, but that's what keeps it all together. There has to be a level of wit and humour. If everything was serious business, I personally wouldn't find the site interesting the way it is now. However, if OP does not take received replies with this frame of mind, and is offended or hurt by them, they can always report it.

I feel quoting posts without input should be allowed. Take for example, "I'll pretend I understood this" - if someone quoted and wrote "Yes, I agree with this statement", I think it should just be left as a quote. A reply to a thread is someone's input and giving the OP their two cents. If they agree with a comment said by another user, I don't see why they should be "restricted" from showing their agreement. If it comes to no replies with only direct quoting, you'd probably just see an arrangement of different ways of the sentence "This doesn't make sense to me" etc.

For me, the community isn't horrible.

[-NoctiS]

WizPig, on 01 September 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

Skyy, on 01 September 2010 - 10:05 AM, said:

-NoctiS, on 01 September 2010 - 08:03 AM, said:

While I personally have been trolling pretty much from time to time I think that I can also say I have had a really good time in this community. Pretty much everything seems to be pretty good aside from the occasional e-drama which, in most cases, isn't all that bad. The only real thing that I absolutely disliked was what happened with WonderGirls back in the day if any of you recall.

I do agree with a change to the rules concerning spam and quoting of texts, but I also want to point out, that sometimes when I quote a block of text I feel that what this person has said is just the same I wanted to say therefore I just quote instead of writing the same thing in a different wording.

About images and similar stuff ; I think completely restricting the posting of any 4chan or whatever meme images would actually be a good thing as they rarely contribute to any thread or even lack the ability to do so as they are purely made for trolling.

i pretty much agree with noctis. i would have actually just quoted him and left it but it's somewhat seen as a bad thing to do now? (so i guess i'll add some more). looking at your example for a bad mass quoting, the audition rant thread, you would rather have everyone just type out "i don't get this"? (or whatever it was). if that's how they feel about the topic, then i don't see how it's a bad thing to quote. they don't do it to "fit in" or act cool or anything like that, or you'd see it in a lot here. not to mention that topic was a rant, purely used to let off steam.

also, if someone makes a thread like "i love sword only!!" and people disagree with him, i don't get how that is automatically seen as trolling. can't people be honest around here? they might not say how they feel in the most civilized way but it still does not make him a troll. if you're going to put in all these rules and even use perm bans as a deterrent, i feel as if everyone will just put on a nice persona, making the forum lack any sense of personality at all. i don't want to go into a thread where everyone will go "yes this is such a good idea!" when they truly don't think that. i know you're just trying to make everything "nicer" and i respect that, but please be realistic as well.

Concerning the quoting of threads, the concept of what happened was understandable, but it isn't really necessary to have that many people do the same thing. It kind of looks like post count feeding if you ask me. People reading these threads that are guests on the forums would probably move on to something else after seeing a whole page wasted on the same quoted piece of text.

You really gotta ask yourself if what you are posting is really going to contribute to anything from time to time. Even if it's an opinion we don't need to hear the same one 15 times in an exact replicas before generating a new reply. If you missed your chance to post that same exact message then just move on as it probably won't change much in that to repost it. We really only need to read it one to at most three times.

But yeah the trolling that's harder to determine. Just try not to overdo it while expressing your opinions? I'm pretty sure I've pissed off a few people myself while getting carried away.

I think most of us can agree upon the fact that the example delivered by Reiki is a very extreme case and it rarely happens like that. Most of us wouldn't quote something 7 or however much times, I just wanted to point out that sometimes it's okay to quote a text if you agree to it, I never meant to encourage such a mass of quotes. I do apologize if it seemed that way.

[Yappie]

Compared to alaplayas forum this is heaven

I mean, its like 99% Complainthreads there. And people gonna hate in that forum.

This forum is friendly imo.

[Ferreira]

Jello, on 01 September 2010 - 03:36 AM, said:

It's not "horribad" by any means, just not idiot-friendly.

Fix'd.

S5 is by far the best S4 community I've seen. Don't worry about it Reiki.
Was probably some butthurt kid ranting.

[StyxNStones]

Ferreira, on 01 September 2010 - 01:17 PM, said:

Jello, on 01 September 2010 - 03:36 AM, said:

It's not "horribad" by any means, just not idiot-friendly.

Fix'd.

S5 is by far the best S4 community I've seen. Don't worry about it Reiki.
Was probably some butthurt kid ranting.

I also have a problem with attitudes like this.

Not "idiot-friendly"? How elitist can you get? What is an idiot? Someone that doesn't like me? Someone that's worse at S4 than me? How are at all these at all people who don't have a right to be on S5 as much as I do? It's ridiculous.

Like, I don't agree with the guy that S5 is horrible and I have a fondness for it but I'm not about to discount him as being "butthurt" (and not just 'cause the world doesn't need more rape jokes). Like what the hell would someone who came here have to be hurt about? Man, Ferre, I don't at all agree with you on sittin around and congratulatin ourselves about how awesome we are while explainin that people who don't like us are just idiots with hurt feelings. It goes against like the whole "we need new blood" idea I'm for. People who stick around a lot somethin a while naturally start to pick up more on the bad things and that can lead to a negative mindset and people leave. A community has to be organic and grow, it can't just stay static with all the same people all the time.

Like the sword only thing. Sometimes swords bring me despair or AP or somethin and I sometimes vent here or MSN or whatever. But if someone shows up here and says "I love S4 and I love sword only mode" man, I may not love sword only mode but I don't wanna like shit on the person's love for somethin (though, I'd be happy to help this person discover the joys of shootin people with swords who are in delay).

Bleh, I'm ranting and am gonna go back to sleep.

I guess on a more positive note, big thanks to the staff and such, especially the tournament peoples, who rock on week after week makin this place awesome.

This post has been edited by StyxNStones: 01 September 2010 - 01:35 PM

[Reiki]

Obviously, things are not alright, Ferriera, if there are a good portion of the posters here saying the same thing: Quote posting is annoying and people troll you for trifling stuff. If I had to choose between it being "idiot-friendly" or not, I'd rather it be that way so atleast EVERYONE feels okay.

[Twins]

Prostitute, on 01 September 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

• Those Chinese people that'll randomly spam the forum from time to time

Those fkcing Chinese ppl, let them make noodle soup instead of randomly spam this forum ...

Besides those annoying Chinese ppl around, s5 is way better than the alaplaya forum.

[Hamlet Piglet]

Skyy, on 01 September 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

i don't think anyone here gives one about upping their post count, really. and i'd rather the forums be catered towards the members - people who have contributed and spent time here instead of guests (actual guests, not newcomers). guests might not want to read a whole page of quoted text but if they had something else to say they should make an account and get into the forums, not lurk about hoping for a better time. i'm not against newcomers or guests in any way, i'd just rather they contribute (in a helpful way though, not make 10 topics and then write 20 replies in a day - especially when they haven't bothered using search).

also, i don't see how if someone "beats you to it" and posts your opinion first you shouldn't post and show that you agree with them. it's a forum and a community. if i made a thread and asked a question, i would rather a lot of people continuously tell me no so i could see what the forum thinks. we only really need to read it 3 times but seeing it more then that obviously tells you a lot about how the community feels about a subject - even if we don't need to read it a lot of times. might sound a little contradicting.

For new users, some people have to like what they see before they bother registering. Everyone has their own reasons coming here and everyone is different, so the best we can do for them is not make it look like it won't be a hassle.

Anyways I'm not saying people care about their post count but that it's really all it does contribute to in the end.

For example when someone says a post doesn't make any sense, I don't really see the need for 7 people after him to quote to say it doesn't make sense in the same exact manner... we kind of got the point. When it's replicated many times in a row, and no one said they understood, I don't think the topic starter thinks to himself that it's going across. No one needs to know as a reader that on top of Prostitute, Chardonnay and Reiki, Outkast, WhiteLen and Society Q also don't think a certain post makes any sense. This is because we haven't moved forward in any kind of way from post 1 to post 6. Who approved and who didn't doesn't make a difference. It's not like anybody asked a question and there wasn't a poll setup. When the first few post the same exact thought, I think it's safe to call a majority. Of course every situation is different but we can probably tell them apart at face value.


It's almost like double posting in a way if you think about it.

In no way am I saying, "don't agree with other posts". Nevertheless, we are community of people, not a community of parrots.
-------------------------------------------
Edit: I guess this is almost like the thumbs up on youtube.

Edit: god dam I go to the groceries for 5 minutes and my post is so late...

This post has been edited by WizPig: 01 September 2010 - 01:38 PM

[Reiki]

I dunno how I feel about that statement. I can understand where Noctis and company are coming from with wanting the use of quote to signify your response, but I feel there's a time and place for it. For example, in the welcome thread, I suppose that's okay. However, everyone has their own spin on things. If all you write is I agree with this guy, I'd be entirely happy.

What, to me, it shows is that people do not care to voice their opinion or try to come up with an argument, which is a waste of free speech in general. I am feeling strongly about restricting quote posting, but I might be okay with it if you include constructive one liners like "Agreed whole heartedly" or "QFT" in the right context. Even in debates, people will not restate the same sentence over, they'll reference what someone said and will say "I agree".

On the form of trolling, I do not ask everyone to agree with each other. I just do not want you to put down each other for your decisions. For example, if someone wants to have Mind Energy, Sentry Gun, and Senty Nell and run a set like that, I am not expecting everyone to be smiles and sunshine. I do like criticism, but constructive criticism rather than predatory criticism. There is a big difference between "Are you fucking stupid and nooby?" to "See, that's not going to work out too well, it looks terrible." The contrast is again extreme, but you get my point.

[Skyy]

WizPig, on 01 September 2010 - 01:37 PM, said:

For new users, some people have to like what they see before they bother registering. Everyone has their own reasons coming here and everyone is different, so the best we can do for them is not make it look like it won't be a hassle.

Anyways I'm not saying people care about their post count but that it's really all it does contribute to in the end.

For example when someone says a post doesn't make any sense, I don't really see the need for 7 people after him to quote to say it doesn't make sense in the same exact manner... we kind of got the point. When it's replicated many times in a row, and no one said they understood, I don't think the topic starter thinks to himself that it's going across. No one needs to know as a reader that on top of Prostitute, Chardonnay and Reiki, Outkast, WhiteLen and Society Q also don't think a certain post makes any sense. This is because we haven't moved forward in any kind of way from post 1 to post 6. Who approved and who didn't doesn't make a difference. It's not like anybody asked a question and there wasn't a poll setup. When the first few post the same exact thought, I think it's safe to call a majority. Of course every situation is different but we can probably tell them apart at face value.


It's almost like double posting in a way if you think about it.

In no way am I saying, "don't agree with other posts". Nevertheless, we are community of people, not a community of parrots.
-------------------------------------------
Edit: I guess this is almost like the thumbs up on youtube.

Edit: god dam I go to the groceries for 5 minutes and my post is so late...

well, we've all got our different opinions about things. seeing as our conversation does not relate entirely to the subject of whether the community is horrible or not, i'll just leave this as it is. glad to have seen your view of things though, it's been quite enlightening.

Reiki, on 01 September 2010 - 01:44 PM, said:

I dunno how I feel about that statement. I can understand where Noctis and company are coming from with wanting the use of quote to signify your response, but I feel there's a time and place for it. For example, in the welcome thread, I suppose that's okay. However, everyone has their own spin on things. If all you write is I agree with this guy, I'd be entirely happy.

What, to me, it shows is that people do not care to voice their opinion or try to come up with an argument, which is a waste of free speech in general. I am feeling strongly about restricting quote posting, but I might be okay with it if you include constructive one liners like "Agreed whole heartedly" or "QFT" in the right context. Even in debates, people will not restate the same sentence over, they'll reference what someone said and will say "I agree".

On the form of trolling, I do not ask everyone to agree with each other. I just do not want you to put down each other for your decisions. For example, if someone wants to have Mind Energy, Sentry Gun, and Senty Nell and run a set like that, I am not expecting everyone to be smiles and sunshine. I do like criticism, but constructive criticism rather than predatory criticism. There is a big difference between "Are you fucking stupid and nooby?" to "See, that's not going to work out too well, it looks terrible." The contrast is again extreme, but you get my point.

everyone views how harsh something sounds differently. "See, that's not going to work out too well, it looks terrible." could be seen as offensive to someone, who's to say if he's correct or not? also, whether people multiquote or not does not make the community horrible, nor is it trolling. i feel as if we've slightly gone off topic, so i wont pursue this argument any longer. i'd be happy to continue to share my views if a thread about said topics was made though.

[-NoctiS]

Reiki, on 01 September 2010 - 01:44 PM, said:

I dunno how I feel about that statement. I can understand where Noctis and company are coming from with wanting the use of quote to signify your response, but I feel there's a time and place for it. For example, in the welcome thread, I suppose that's okay. However, everyone has their own spin on things. If all you write is I agree with this guy, I'd be entirely happy.

What, to me, it shows is that people do not care to voice their opinion or try to come up with an argument, which is a waste of free speech in general. I am feeling strongly about restricting quote posting, but I might be okay with it if you include constructive one liners like "Agreed whole heartedly" or "QFT" in the right context. Even in debates, people will not restate the same sentence over, they'll reference what someone said and will say "I agree".

On the form of trolling, I do not ask everyone to agree with each other. I just do not want you to put down each other for your decisions. For example, if someone wants to have Mind Energy, Sentry Gun, and Senty Nell and run a set like that, I am not expecting everyone to be smiles and sunshine. I do like criticism, but constructive criticism rather than predatory criticism. There is a big difference between "Are you fucking stupid and nooby?" to "See, that's not going to work out too well, it looks terrible." The contrast is again extreme, but you get my point.

I can agree with this for the most part, but actually when I see people just quoting a "Hi and welcome to S5" over and over again that is what I think of as a wrong use of quoting because it shows the new user that you don't really care. Then again this is just my pov and I do believe that it's a very unusual way to think of such matters. I wanted to point this out anyway.

I like the way this seems to be heading anyway and while I don't want the quote thing to be forbidden I can entirely understand the reasons you have for wanting to do so and I wouldn't be upset if it happens.

[Twins]

I have seen websites where they faced the same problem of quoting others. They simply minimized the quoted parts and only showed the original post in the thread. You should ask kp what he can do about it. It is indeed wasted time to click on a thread where there are only quoted parts. like This. This. This. This. THIS.

And about getting idiot-friendly, i do agree on that in general. Over here on the other hand... if there is a discussion between a few 500+ posts members e.g. i don't see why you can't troll once in a while. It is just that new member need some other approach to keep them around so they can see for themself if they like it or not. Face it, this is a forum and its excistence is based on the more competitive players around (or those who feel involved). And not everybody likes eachother, and i don't see why it should be. There isn't much to discuss other than what happens ingame or what comes out of alaplaya's hq's c.q. the updates. And most of the ppl around just register or visit the site only when they need something or are stuck with problems, s4 related...

[blackyyy]

I really like the community. (to be bookmarked is rare @ mine)

Positive :
- active and nice community
- well structured homepage / forum

Negative :
- Can't express myself that well because english isnt my motherlanguage x'D (Not your Problem just mine)

But to keep the whole S5 Community in ENGLISH is an very important point i think.
To make own sections for each "nationality" would be horrible.
Section for every Country would mean :
German Kids join S5 to spamm like they do @ alaplaya and S4 League.

[Reiki]

Although a lot of competitive players stay here, I would not be hurt to see them leave if it meant a newbie-friendly environment. I built this place so that everyone, newbie or veteran, could have a place they could hang out.

In short, I feel I have not done a good job maintaining that image.

[Ferreira]

By idiots, I was mentioning people who join the forum and end up just making it slightly worse than before.
People who, generally, do not contribute to the improvement of it. Even if they don't actually mean it to be rude, mean, etc.
We are not perfect. Nothing is in the matter of fact. For what I have seen, this is the best of the S4 community forums. And I enhance the words "For what I have seen".
Multi-quoting is perfectly aceptable in the Wellcome sub-forum due to people wanting to warmly wellcome new people, but would just say the same thing as others.

Abusing of multi-quote is a problem all over the Internet. I, personaly, have no problem with it unless it clogs up a lot of a forum page or contains above medium-sized images.

[Lag]

Ferreira, on 01 September 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

By idiots, I was mentioning people who join the forum and end up just making it slightly worse than before.
People who, generally, do not contribute to the improvement of it. Even if they don't actually mean it to be rude, mean, etc.
We are not perfect. Nothing is in the matter of fact. For what I have seen, this is the best of the S4 community forums. And I enhance the words "For what I have seen".
Multi-quoting is perfectly aceptable in the Wellcome sub-forum due to people wanting to warmly wellcome new people, but would just say the same thing as others.

Abusing of multi-quote is a problem all over the Internet. I, personaly, have no problem with it unless it clogs up a lot of a forum page or contains above medium-sized images.

I do see nice people come in and then see that nice attitude change to what you call "idiots" for their duration on the forums. The new people want to fit in with the community, so they will starting behaving like the community. Not saying the community acts like idiots, just saying that they see a majority of people acting foolish or stupid and think it's ok to act that way.

On the multi-quoting in the welcome forums, I see it as a bad and discouraging thing. I wouldn't want to see one person's "Welcome to S5!" quoted five times if I was the new person joining. I would find the lack of contributing with their own reply seem like they don't care about welcoming me and just wanted to do something to increase their post count. Just how I feel, though.

[Kypski]

Image S5 community like a college frat club. You get the head members who joke, talk and trash with each other. When a new member joins the club, he/she have to go through the requirements and see if the guy is qualify. Too often new members that join here either are bad apples or complete novice onto how things roll around here and so they set off a bad reaction which leads to a bit of bashing. For the time I spent around here, this community knows how to bash and really mess someone up. Since Reiki wanted a community of both new and old members to mix and mash, it's rather been far from this concept for a long time. Makes you think what's the point of the guides here are offer for.

Ferreira, as always you're taking on a harsh view and opinion around these forums. Not that you are treating members in that manner but tone down the aggressiveness. No need to go throwing slanders or using ignorant generalizations. Tell the truth dude, 90% of it!

The multi-quoting in this forum should really be voice better. Nearly every topic has at least just one person quote another reply with no words of their own. Perfectly fine to agree with the person but at least put some words of your own below it. I think that's what we all are asking for...input some of YOUR own thoughts into the reply; not as if the person you quote said the SAME EXACT thing you would going to type.

[Prostigone]

For the whole multi-quoting thing, I feel like it's acceptable, to a moderate degree, to go ahead and do it in some of the threads where people have stated the same point over-and-over again. If the quote has a decent-sized image, I usually just edit the quote with some form of descriptive text so that the whole thread doesn't turn into a scroll-down party.

In the welcome thread, I see quoting someone's welcome in a way to be lazy and not too heart-thought, but the reason I do it sometimes is because I'm usually on the forums (for now at least) in between class change or right before a class starts. As of right now, I really need to get to my next class. ;__;

TL;DR: Some topics with a certain tone to them are okay to do some form of quote'n'post-based post, while I don't think the welcome thread necessarily should have the same kind of mentality to it; you should at least add a sentence or so after the quote although I've been guilty of not doing this before.

[zamobile]

Twins, on 01 September 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

Prostitute, on 01 September 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

• Those Chinese people that'll randomly spam the forum from time to time

Those fkcing Chinese ppl, let them make noodle soup instead of randomly spam this forum ...

Besides those annoying Chinese ppl around, s5 is way better than the alaplaya forum.

b-but, i'm chinese T T
but i agree with a ton of stuff that was already said, the egoism, trolling, the non-serious replies to someone who actually wants to know something, and not respecting another person's oppinion.
otherwise, i do find this forum to be very enjoyable, not only do i find the latest news on this forum, i also find out about other non-s4 related topics that are very interesting, ones that show me new things.

[Sanzo]

Reiki, on 01 September 2010 - 01:32 PM, said:

Quote posting is annoying and people troll you for trifling stuff

Reiki, on 01 September 2010 - 01:44 PM, said:

I am feeling strongly about restricting quote posting

Reiki, on 01 September 2010 - 02:40 PM, said:

I would not be hurt to see them leave if it meant a newbie-friendly environment.

Your going to implement a new quote rule as a "solution" because of the s5 community being called "horrible" by one person
Just add the new rule, that should end a part of this topic and get it over with


@Rette and Sky
I agree with both of you but "majority" overrules what we think

@Fer
i think it was analraped not butthurt to be exact

EDIT: If your going to edit my post, at least have the decency to say your the one that edited it

This post has been edited by Yusei: 01 September 2010 - 07:15 PM